Episode 429 – Knowing When to Push and When to Back Off

Welcome back to the Smiling Homeschooler Podcast! This week we’re talking about knowing when to push our kids and when to back off. As homeschool parents, we all have things we believe are important for our children to learn, but what do we do when they don’t enjoy them, don’t want to do them, or flat-out tell us they hate school?

From math and history to music and Bible time, we’ll walk through some real-life scenarios and talk about how to know which battles are worth fighting and when it might be time to change things up. We hope you enjoy the conversation!

We want to thank Teaching Textbooks for supporting the Smiling Homeschooler. We truly think they are one of the best math curriculums out there, and if you don’t already use them, you should! Check out a free trial at teachingtextbooks.com.

Today’s show is also underwritten by Samaritan Ministries and Redeem HealthShare. Where Members are committed to honoring Christ and serving one another through health care needs. As Todd likes to say, “We use, love, and recommend Samaritan Ministries. You can learn more about REDEEM HealthShare at SamaritanMinistries.org/familyman.

Lastly, the You’da Dad Daily calendar is up on our website! This is a page-a-day calendar that is the perfect Christmas gift for your husband. It is fun and encouraging, so head on over to our store to pick one up for your husband! 

Have a great week and don’t forget to smile!

Episode Transcript

Hey, everyone.Welcome to the Smiling Homeschooler podcast.We’re glad you can join us again this week.Um, before we get started, we wanna say thank you to Teaching Textbooks, as always, for making the Smiling Homeschooler possible.Um, they’re the math curriculum our family uses, and we think they help more homeschoolers smile during math time.So if you are struggling, your kid’s not enjoying math and you don’t use Teaching Textbooks, give them a shot over at teachingtextbooks.com.Today’s show is also underwritten by Samaritan Ministries and Redeem Health Share, where members are committed to honoring Christ and serving one another through healthcare needs.As my dad, Todd, likes to say, we use, love, and recommend Samaritan Ministries, and you can learn more about Redeem Health Share at, um, samaritanministries.org/familyman.All right, Dad, let’s go ahead and get started though.Okay.Well, hey, everybody.As we record this, it is election day or election night.I haven’t really looked, um, how things are going.It just started.But, you know, they just started reporting.Um, you know, the, but the temptation is to think that what’s happening tonight in the news is the important stuff.Really, the things that impact your family the most will happen in your homeschool every single day.That’s not just a cute little thing to say.That is the truth.Um, so don’t forget that, Mom, no matter how it turns out, um, as I had some dad write me today.You know, God’s still on the throne.Doesn’t really matter.He sets them up, tears them down, and He’s gonna do what He’s gonna do.All that said, we hope our people win.Um, so, um, uh, I d- and since then, weRissa had her birthday yesterday, and we- Yeahwe did, uh, trick-or-treating in our small town.Um, and, and whether you, whatever you feel about Halloween, um, it is reallyUh, and when you’re in our little town of Milford, Indiana, it feels like you’re in a Norman Rockwell painting as kids are going up and down the street with their parents, and, um, it’s, it’s, it’s kinda fun.It’s kinda fun.Just with an extra layer of, uh, of- Greatwhite trash.So no.True.No.True.Our listeners who aren’t here in Milford, we’re not including you, so, uh- Exactly, and we do have some, so- Yeahuh-huh.No.Yeah, we- It is a fun time, and yeah, it’s, uh, it, uh, it’s been just gorgeous here, just the beautiful fall leaves and everything, and over the last couple days, it has started to change.Time change, I justIt’s such a bummer ’cause it’s, like, tonight, it was, like, 70 degrees, and then, you know, by 6:00, it’s pitch black out almost, 6:15.Yeah.So even though it’s beautiful, we can’t really even hardly enjoy it, so.Um- And th- this is the year of the leaf pile.Yeah.Uh, last, yesterday, Abe, who’s 25 years old, and his brother, who’s 18, they had these industrial leaf blowers on their backs, and they made a humongous pile of leaves.Uh, and it, it, the kids have played in it almost nonstop yesterday- Yeahand today, so it’s been super fun, super fun.That is a goodIf you, you know, if you don’t do anything else, just make a big leaf pile if you’re in an area that has them.Just make sure it happens ’cause it is a really fun time.Uh, and then the other thing, uh, I was gonna say- Or if you’re, like, in Arizona, you can make, like, a pile of sand.Yeah, pile of sand.You know, I don’t know if it has the same thing.Sled down it.Um, the other thing I was gonna say is if you have, um, you haven’t heard of it, there’s a game we’ve been playing, uh, my, uh, Rissa and the kids especially- You lost me when you said game- That’s truewe’ve been playingcalled, uh, Swoop, I think it is.Um, weI played it with my, uh, brother-in-law and sister-in-law, and it’s just really, really fun.It’s, it, it’sI mean, even my, you know, my 7yearold really, really likes it.Uh, it’s pretty simple rules.It’s mostly about just, you know, trying to play cards, you know, to get, like, a certain amount, you know, uh, numbers in a row, and then, you know, clear the s- the pile kinda deal and not end up with a bunch of cards in your hand.Um, but it’s just reallyIt’s fun.The kids can play it, and if you’re looking for just maybe a good winter game to play with the kids and you haven’t heard of it, Swoop is a good one, I think.Um, and if you really wanna make it something, you can make your kid keep track of the score or something and, you know, and count it towards school, so.But don’t do that.But don’t do that.Don’t do that.Exactly.Um, uh, well, Ben, that’s kind of a lead-in to m- maybe not exactly what we’re gonna talk about.Um, but you know, the question always arises, um, in many ways.You know, um, you know, my, my k- my kid’s giving some resistance to the homeschooling, whatever we’re doing.Maybe it’s a subject.Maybe it’s through the whole idea.When do I kinda push through- And push them to be the best person they can be, and when do I back off?Because maybe I’m asking a little bit too much, or maybe it’s not any fun, or maybe, you know, it’s just time to back off.Mm-hmm.Um, and that can be really confusing because, uh, you know, sometimes they, they, they actually s- look alike sometimes.Um, so I thought maybe we could talk about that.And the way I’ve kind of, uh, made it is that maybe we could do it, like, um, with different scenarios, as they say in the mother country.Uh, scenarios, umWhere?I’m trying to find the scenarios, actually.I’ve got them here too.Um, I wrote them somewhere.Oh, here they are.Um, different scenarios, and then we’ll just kinda talk about them and see what we sh- you know, what your thoughts are.Sh- you know, m- like a Love It or List It.Should you push through or back off?Um, here’s number one.Uh, my child just lied about doing his math work.He said he’d been doing it, and I believed him.That was the first mistake, actually.When I checked, I saw that he was way behind and, in fact, hasn’t been doing it for about a month.You know, uh, what should I do?Should I push through or should I back off?Well, I mean- To answer all the questionsyeah, so Renley didn’t have this exactly, whichAnd she does use Teaching Textbooks, but she was kind of faking it, we realized, on some stuff.She didn’t really, wasn’t taking the time to actually write stuff out, and, uh, this was last year.And so, you know, what I would suggest is, um, is talk to him.Just see what’s frustrating him about it.And then I would say don’t even worry about the progress part in terms of, like, how far you’re going, you know, through the book or through your curriculum or whatever.You know, you may have to go back in time a little bit and work with him for a little while.But just try to remove whatever that, that, that friction point is, but then, umBut just don’t worry about, like, just feeling like you’re backtracking or making them feel bad about, like, “Oh, we didn’t, you knowNow you’re not gonna finish on time,” or something like that.Um, you don’t have to do 100 extra, you know, um, lessons in a row just to catch back up.Um, and I think, uh, just slow it down and try to, uh, go back in time a little bit on that and, uh- ‘Cause don’t you think-see what’s going onI mean, doesI mean, I know so many parents are like, m- true, maybe a side thing, they’re so blown away that their kids would lie or cheat- Mmabout theirBut do you think everybody does it?I mean, in, on, in, in their entire life, yes.I mean- Yes, so, so-definitelyI, I mean, you will not be punished then, uh, if you re- reveal something at this point.IAre you trying to search for something?I don’t know.Yes.There, no.But I do remember- But you know, I think every kidGo ahead.You remember what?No, I d- this isn’t lying necessarily, but I do remember when I wasThis is later on in high school when I was trying to, you know, do my, uhIt was some math thing for my college, uh, stuff.I used Wolfram Alpha, and this is pre-AI, so at the time I was like, “You know, this is not widespread.”And I would basically just put in every single pr- math problem that was like a, a, like a f- you know, it was a story problem or whatever, and then just try to, like, fake my way through the answers ’cause I just did not, you know, wanna have to go through all of it again.Eventually, it got to the point where it just wasn’t smart enough to be able to decipher out the answers and I had to relearn it all anyway.But, uh, so that was, uh one that I remember kind of like this.Dark day in the, dark time in the Wilson house.Yeah, exactly.But, you know, I do think kids, when they get in over their heads- Yeahsometimes we as parents, um, we don’t force them to be dishonest because, I mean, they have to make their own choices.But we do, we, we paint them into a corner where really the only way is to lie, cheat, and steal, you know?I mean, really.Because we say, “You need to be doing this.If you’re not g- if you don’t do your math or you don’t do whatever, then you’re gonna spend all day up here in your room until you’re done.”And so, you know, we kind of put them in a hard place, um, again, especially if they don’t understand it.a hard place, um, again, especially if they don’t understand it.Um, I mean, and I hear it all the time.I hear kids who will hide their homework, you know, hide their lessons.I mean, we had one kid who hid his teachingNo, uh, IEW, Institute for Excellence in Writing.It, it was a DVD, I think, at the time.He had hid it in the, the folds of the couch.We spent forever looking for it.We could never find it.Um, it wasn’t because he was trying to be a rotten kid.It was because he didn’t get it.Mm-hmm.And he thought the only way to move on was to fake it.Yeah.Um, and- That’s where I just, I feel like- Yeahbeing, if nothing else, just being so protective of their, theirTrying to not get them to the point where they’re afraid of it, you know?Mm-hmm.Because I feel like once they’re hating it, it is a lot harder to get them to ever want to reengage with it, you know?Uh, ’cause now they’re just, like, you know, they, they’re leery of it versusUh, and that’s where I think a lot of times, like, trying to accomplish, you know, what the Plussing Plan is or a certain amount, or you a- you know, you have to get this all done exactly howLike, I just think that can lead a lot to really frustration and being overwhelmed, uh, and just feeling like, “I don’t ever w- wanna have to engage with this again.”Not meaning you have to just make it all easy and, you know, let them- Mmnever do anything, but, um, I justYeah.I, I know even in my own experience of being homeschooled, like, once it’s, you start checking out, like, “I can’t do this,” it’s hard to get- Mm-hmmback on board with, “I can do this.”So, um- Yeah.if you’re just dogmatic about, “You didn’t get every single thing done on this, you know, you can do it all again” or whatever it is, then I, I do think that that can lead to that pretty easily.Yeah.And so I don’t know if weI don’t know if we answered the question, or maybe there’s not a question in there, but whether you push through or back off, I think I would giveIf, if I had a child who was, felt in over his head, was cheating because of that, I mean, you would deal with the cheating part, but then you would say, “Okay, maybe we need to, maybe we need to back up.”Mm.You know?And go back to where he can touch his feet on the ground again, you know?And, because the water’s too deep.And start again.Right.And not as a shameful thing like, “Well, now you’re being held back,” but, uh, just, you know, it’s part of learning, you know?And it’s not a big deal.You just, you want them to learn, so you just gotta go back.And, and so maybe you’re gonna back off a little bit, uh, and then you’re gonna start up again.Yeah.Which leads me to the second one.Uh, “My child just hates doing his math facts,” you know, another math one.”We tried songs, poems, and making it a game.He just doesn’t like doing it.Should I give up?”And again, we hear these kind of things all the time, and it usually invo- revolves around math.Yeah.What do you think, Ben?I mean, I don’t necessarily know you have to never do it again, but, you know, uh, a- again, I just is like, what is it worth to you, I think, is, is the thing.Is it truly worth potentially just, you know, fighting every single day, uh, and having them hate their l- their life, and you hate your life because of math facts.I do think, um, obviously, they are handy, but maybe there’s a different way you can totally approach it without even him realizing that it’s math facts, you know?Um, what that is.Thirsty sixes.No, but I mean, like, like, I mean, I, I rememberThis is, this is rudimentary, but I remember playing a game once, like a, a, like a video game, where to actually, like, stay ahead, you actually had to do, like, basic, you know, math, uh, multiplication.Mm-hmm.And it was simple and everything, but, you know, it was fun, and, and IIt just, it wasn’t something I was thinking about.’Cause really it’s just, you just need the repetition of it enough so you don’t have to, like, literally sit down and write it all out every time.And if you’re close to- Rightyou know, if you knowEven if you know, like, 70%, you will probably be able to get to the other ones really quick, you know?Um, so I, I don’t know.It’s, it’sI’m not, I don’t know all of my math facts even now.I don’t remember them all.Um, and- Oh.You know?It’s- Oh.We will be quizzing him- Yeahon his sevens and eights here in just a couple minutes.Yeah, that’s the hard ones.You know, uh, in fact- You know, 7 times 7 is 49.You kinda work from there, you know?So.That’s right.9 times 9 is 81.That’s how we were, uhYour kids have not watched Schoolhouse Rock, Ben.I was just- Noshocked.And because I was- That was, like, 75 years ago, probably.I was raised on Schoolhouse Rock on Saturday morning.And I mean, uh, we, we, theyAnd in fact, they have them on Disney+ right now, and they have really almost all the math facts in, uh, 316 twib, you know, whatever, in some kind of catchy rhyme.Um- I mean, Ren Lee can memorize probably the entire Bible if it was in a song within an afternoon.If she just wantedI mean, she is uncanny about how good she is at memorizing.But I think, I did think you kinda, y- you gave a little clue, though, Ben.You said, you know, “If this is important to you,” you know, “you have to decide that.”And I think that’s really, in a lot of these questions, you know, if you, parents, if you as the parent decide that math facts are important, and, you know, in my, and for my kids, I thought they were important, you know?Um, like Ben said, you may not remember them all and be able to do them as fast as lightning.Right.But, uh, you know, they, they are handy to know.So but if you decide that’s important, then, you know, then you’re not gonna just back off all the way.You’re gonna have to push through a little bit.But I would say, um, maybe, and maybe this is a general rule, th- that sh- a short time, a shortIs that the right, you, way you say it?Not spending a lot of time doing it each day makes it more digestible.You know, if you’re spending on math or math facts, like 45 minutes of drudgery, I mean, nobody wins.But if you’re gonna say, “Hey, we’re gonna run through all the fives today, um, and we’re gonna do them on the cards.You’re gonna go run, run through the cards twice.It’s gonna take a total of what?6 minutes, then we’re gonna be done.”And I would be done.And really, even when it’s drudgery, everybody can handle 6 minutes.Yeah.You know?Yeah.And then you don’t, you don’t wince every time they go, “Five times 3 is”And you’re like, “We’ve done this a million times.”You know, you just go onto the next one.Well, I’m gonna read the next one just so that I don’t have to answer- Okayyours every time.But, uh, scenario number 3 is, “Academics are important to me.I want my child to be prepared, so we do school all morning and into the late afternoon.My 9yearold daughter says she hates school.What do you think?I don’t want them to be behind.”Well, I mean- And I’ve actually heard this one quite often, you know, from people- Surewhere it’s just, you know, “Oh, my kids, you know, really just don’t like school.They wannaYou know, they hate homeschooling.They hate me as a teacher, whatever.So I’m just thinking, you know, this is not the thing for us,” kinda deal.And, you know, it’s alwaysYeah, I mean, that’s a pretty common thing.IAnd I would say the, theMy initial answer is back off.You know, just back off a little bit.Um, really, whatever your circumstances are, you shouldn’t be doing school all morning and lat- and into the late afternoon.You should be done in a reasonable time, in a couple hours, almost at every grade level, you know.Um, and then they have time for interests.Um, but if your children say they hate doing school, I don’t think it’s because they hate learning.Everybody likes to learn.What they hate is the time it takes, and for a lot of kids, if it feels unimportant or you think, “What is the point of this?”Um, some kids can handle that.You know, some kids, they don’t care what it is.You just give them workbook pages and have them memorize meaningless dates, and they’re fine with that.Other kids, and I was one of those kids, if I, if it didn’tIf you couldn’t explain why I needed to, to use it, then I kinda checked it out in my head, and I thought it was a waste of time, you know?So I would, I would back off.And if I had a kid who didn’t like school, and me, you know, I would take a little break, and I would play, and I would get the relationship right, and then ease back into school.Especially at those younger years.I mean- Mm-hmmespecially then.Um, I would also say, I think that, uh, you know, if, if you’re feeling like this is, uh, inconsistent but you feel pressure from your curriculum, ’cause especially some very popular, large curriculum, uh, options out there that are kind of, like all in one big package kinda deal, th- you know, they just, they have a lot of requirements.They have all these things that you need to get done.They have accountability in the form of lots of meetings and, you know, all the thingAnd if, so if, if you’re getting to the point where your kid hates school because of all these things you feel like you have to get done, then I would encourage you, maybe pull out and change to something else.Because I just don’t think that- Mm-hmmit’s worth accomplishing the curriculum at the sake of your kid hating your homeschooling and then you thinking, “Well, I’m just gonna throw them in school instead because I’m just not a good teacher,” or whatever it is.’Cause IYou’re, you’re a better teacher than they’ll ever get anywhere else, so- Right.That’s fineum, I, I justYou know, I mean, I get that academics are important to a lot of people, but personally, that is not the number one reason why w- we homeschool and why we believe homeschooling’s the best.ItWe think that also is true, uh, that it does give you a better education, a better, uh, s- sets you up better for life going forward.But it’s not the number one and most important element of it, so.And honestly, I don’t think I’ve met more than 3 moms who really, who academics is important to them.I don’t think any of them would say it’s more important than the relationship- Yeahwith their child.Everybody would say that.There are a few.I have met a couple who didn’t, and- Yeahit’s a probably a murder- And I think almost anyone would say it-don’t sleepbut just, even though that everyone would say it, doesn’t mean that they all act that, you know, everyone acts that way- Oh, no, no, noin their day-to-day, you know?And that’s the hard part.So it’s like, I mean, I say that all the time, where it’s like, “Well, yeah, I mean, if I was pushed on it, obviously I’d agree with that, but this is really important to me.”And it’s like, you know, it is, but my heart of hearts- I always say we trust God-I know it’s truebut then nothing goes along.Exactly That’s like hard.I would never disagree with that.So I get that- YeahI get that part.Exactly.So, um, you know- Well- Uh, and, and I would agree with you, Ben.There are some, there are some curriculum, um, I’ve never mentioned by name, but there are some, uh, and methods that I’m not a, a real fan of.I don’t think it’s very sustainable because I think it puts a lot of pressure on parents.Um, and what I find them doing is, uh, you’ll get a group of people who start these methods and then, you know, by the time they get to high school, none of them are homeschooling anymore.Mm.And I just think it’s a, it’s an unsustainable thing.It should, homeschooling should bring joy and fun, and it should feel purposeful and real.And so, uh, again, I might back off just a little bit.Well, real quick, uh- Hey, we wanna thank Go- Go for it.I, I’m gonna go first.Uh, we wanna thank Samaritan Ministries and Renee Meloche for making today’s shows possible.Samaritan offers different options to best fit your family at whatever stage in life you are.It’s biblical, affordable, and offers freedom to choose the providers you trust.We’ve used them for f- more than 15 years, and it couldn’t be moreAnd we couldn’t be more pleased.You can find which options best fit your family or talk to their amazing customer support at samaritaministries.org/familyman.And we do wanna say thank you to Teaching Textbooks for just, uh, making The Smiling Homeschool possible.Um, I will say that, you know, as we were talking earlier about math and, you know, the scenario of a kid cheating, with Teaching Textbooks you can actually set it up so that you will get reports on, um, their progress and what they’re accomplishing and getting all of that, uh, and what they’re getting done.So if you want to, you know, have some of that independence but still, you know, know where they’re at, um, then I think Teaching Textbooks is a great option for them.And they all, they have like a portal you can log into.It’s just a, it’s a really slick, well, um, made, uh, curriculum.And we really appreciate their support.Uh, you can check out a free trial over at teachingtextbooks.com.So scenario number 4 Okay.How about a couple more?is my 9yearold son says he hates history.I think it’s important, and we don’t do all that much beside reading living books.Should I give it up?I’d say no, don’t give it up.I mean, again, if you think it’s important, then it is important.Um, you know, sometimes I think kids, again, they just say that because it’s not their thing.Um, I think living books are wonderful, and by living books, if you don’t know what we’re talking about, we’re just talking about good stories that, uh, have a, maybe a historical theme or, uh, historical, uh, biography.Um, and you know, Debbie always read them, um, to the kids of all ages at the same time, you know, and some would be playing and maybe seemingly not listen, and others would be coloring and listening, and some of them were more mesmerized by the story.But, you know, she just did it.It was part of her daily life.And we didn’t care so much about, you know, how much they were taking in because the ones who wanted to take in took in, and the ones who didn’t, didn’t.Yeah.Um, but it was important to us because we thought history was important because, you know, we live in a worldI can remember telling Ben, you know, ’cause he, he was a history guy, uh, really knows more about history than anybody I know, and, uh, I can remember at 1 point he was like, “So what, but what’s the point, Dad, you know, that, that I know history?”And I’m like, “Because it’s true.”You know, truth is important, and we need to be reminded of the truth.Yeah.Um, I would also say, you know, this is, this isn’t always easy, especially when you got a bunch of kids and everything else, but you know, I just look for the spark.If there’s interest in something, you know, and it might be different for every kid, you know.Not everyone is gonna be like, “I can listen to a book read aloud, and I can engage with that” Mm-hmmyou know.Some people just cannot engage with, like, an audiobook style, which is what reading aloud basically is.Um, and they actually need to look at it, or, you know, maybe, yes, they need pictures, so you need to do that.Or maybe it is watch Ken Burns’ Civil War, you know, and that gives you, you know, gets you interested.Or like for Renley recently, they went to a local just, you know, it wasI don’t even know what it was exactly, but it’s basically some old cabins, you know, and they just kinda showed how things were done in the olden days.And I mean, she was so into that, you know- Mmand, and just experiencing some of that.Or, um, every town almost has some kinda old, you know, our town is a little town, but they have like a old jail museum where they have, you know, you go in the jail cells and stuff like that.So like if, uh, j- if you can find a spark where your kid thought that was cool and then use that to kinda build a little bit off of, I think that is awesome.I mean, you may not be covering, you know, every point of, you know, the Peloponnesian Wars up through the, you know, Hundred Year War and all that kinda stuff.Like, you’re not gonna go through all of that maybe, but it’s at least stuff that feels real, and you’re just getting them interested in the past.Um, ’cause I, honestly, I don’t know if I’ve ever met anyone who literally has 0 interest in anything that happened in the past, you know.Or again, my daughter there, she thinks it’s really interesting because my mother-in-law thinks it’s really interesting, and all the stuff of her great-grandparents, and this was my great-grandma’s, you know, uh, chair or whatever, and that’s still history.So I think there- Mm-hmmcan be such a broad, um, fun way of engaging with it other than just reading if your kids aren’t just engaging with that.You know, try to go, uh, ’cause it, it, it can be hands-on even, um, even though it doesn’t always feel like that ’cause it’s, you know, in the past.Mm-hmm.But there’s a lot of ways you can do that.Or maybe if you’re on the eastern side, you can go to some, you know, there’s, um, you know, obviously a lot of historical stuff, or I mean everywhere, butOr even like we have in our area, um, like reenactment festivals.You know, that, that kinda stuff’s all history, so, um, if they’re even a little bit interested, I would maybe then, uh, you know, pull on that thread So- Oh, and there are a lot of, you know, uh, YouTube videos and movies and that are all history related- Yeahand, and a lot, lot of lot of fun.Okay, number 5, “I want all my kids to learn to play an instrument, so I make them each practice 30 minutes a day.Some love doing it, others I have to fight tooth and nail.I don’t know what to do.”I mean, again, it’s just like how important is it to you, you know?I mean, um- YeahI was talking to someone a, a, you know, a while back and they were just like, “I just want us to be a music family where our just family, you know, just does that.”And I’m like, “That’s awesome.”You know, I mean, a lot of the music families I knew ended up hating their parents and, you know, wa- walked away from everything.So it’s just, but that’s like at what cost?Again, um, if you’re a musical family and you, that’s just part of your culture, I think that’s awesome and super cool and, but obviously in this scenario specifically, um, some of them may not be, so maybe they are just the bare minimum, and then your other ones excel at it and just love it, you know?Um, uh, our family we weren’t a super musical family.I don’t think- I mean, Ben was the only one who played the banjo, but that was- That’s true.That’s true.I had a xylophone, but I mean-uh, Sam played guitar a little bit.Um, is that really it?And when he means a little bit, he means like none.Yeah, and I will say like not to throw shade at Sam, I just remember him practicing guitar and him being so off-key, like s- he would sing along with it.It was so funny.But I would try not to obviously make a big deal out of it or anything, but, um, I don’t know if he ever plays anymore.Well, I w- oh, I was bringing, uh, Catherine’s kids home in the car the other day yesterday, and I was singing and, uh, um, uh, Ellis goes, um, “I don’t like mom sing.Don’t like mom sing.”I said, “You don’t like when your mom sing?”He goes, “No.”He, he goes, “Pops is okay.”He goes, “Nah, uh-uh.”That’s funny.So- Yeahyou know.And again, there are more, there are bigger battles to fight, and I just don’t wanna push, you know, my kids into hating something, uh, that should be enjoyable.And if some of your kids don’t like music, I’m gonna guess they like something else.Mm.You know, they like building things, and there’s no difference between building a birdhouse and playing an instrument.There’s no difference between, you know, Cohen was out there making snares, uh you know, out of yarn, you know?That is- Yeahthat’s real music, you know, really.And I mean, that is a hard thing, you know, as, I mean, I, I assume you had to experience that even though I feel like a lot of your kids are into the things you’re interested in.But you know, you have these things that you really care about, you know, your whole life, but then, and you wanna pass that excitement and that love onto your kids- Mm-hmmyou know?But it just is not how it always works, and I feel like that is tough- Yeahto come to grips with sometimes, you know?Which I think a lot of times they do, you know, pick up what you enjoy.But, um, there are limits of that, um, so.I mean, I was just reading recently there was a, there’s a person who’s a super famous cellist, you know, violinist who said they hate playing the instrument.I mean, they said th- that’s all they did growing up.Their parents madeYou know, and, and I’m like, even though that’s how he makes his living, he still doesn’t like doing it.That’s just crazy.And I’m just like, wow.Yeah.Well then let’s do this last one here and then wrap it up here.Uh- Okayis, “We do Bible every day, but the kids seem unengaged.Am I wasting my time?Should I wait until they get older?We spend about 30 minutes doing Bible each morning.”Um, again, uh, you need to decide what’s important to you.We believe i- in our house that the Bible is the most important, but here’s what I do believe.I believe that a 6yearold cannot engage in the same way that a 40-year-old does.I do not believe a teenager can engage the same way as a 40-year-old, you know?So our devotions that we had every morning that, that Debbie did with the kids, um, we didn’t do family devotions all the time.We tried and failed most of it of the time.Um, but they were very short.It took 10 minutes maybe.Um, she read from a couple books.They read from the Bible, you know?I just claim the promise that God said what, that if His Word goes into us, it will not come back void.It will not come back empty.So- YeahI’m kinda good with that.So yeah, it was important to me for our kids, and I still check on my k- kids.You know, Jed, the last one, I, “Have you been r- have you been reading your Bible every day?”And he’ll say, “Yeah, Dad.”You know, I don’t check to see how engaged he is with it.I just want him to read it, you know?And really, you, you have to have some age, and you have to have someI mean, Ben and his brother Sam, we were having a really deep conversation last night at Rissa’s birthday party about spiritual things and theological things.I mean, those don’t, you don’t get those when you’re 13 usually.Um, you know, it takes some life to stir them up and have a reason for those things.So, so I would say if your Bible time, your devotion time feels like you’re having a battle, I would, I would shorten it again, and I would make sureI would go down to the lowest denominator.So if you had a kid who was, you know, 4, 8, and 12, I would probably shoot for the 5yearold, you know, somewhere in there, and let the 12-year-old just kinda ha- hang along, and I think they’ll, they’ll do just well.I mean, and it’s tough, yeah.I mean, I do believe that, you know, the Bible, or the Bible is the Word of God literally.And so, I mean, I do think there isIt isn’t just you being incredible at engaging with them on every second- Mm-hmmthat’s going to impact them.I mean, God will work through that, and I do believe, um, works, you know, in your chi- children’s hearts.So but that being said, I do think obviously, um, you know, just consistency in family is so hard.I don’t know why exactly.I don’t know if it’s just the chaos of a bunch of kids and everything else, but, you know, everything that we ever try to be consistent with, it is just hard.It’s hard to make it happen every day and exactly the amount of time that you’d like and, you know, to the depth that you’d want.But I think utilizing those moments that just pop up spontaneously also is super powerful.Um, you know, I know sometimes it’s, it always feels like my kids just, like, start getting into the most, like, in- you know, uh, questions right before I’m, you know, about to walk out of their room at night, you know?But I don’t wanna just, you know, pass those, those questions off ’cause that’s, like, that’s the big stuff that really matters is when they’re excited to talk about heaven, or they’re excited to talk about, “How is it possible that, you know, that Jesus can be God and the Son?”You know, or whatever, like, or not have an ending or beginning, you know, and all those kinda things.Like, those are just awesome opportunities, and hopefully those pop up, and you can y- you can use those even if you don’t get to, uh, have tons and tons and tons of time of just, um, devotional or B- you know, Bible time in the morning.So, um, but it is the most important, so I do agree that that would beIf, if nothing else, that is, uh, I think one of the, the, the, the primary things that I would want to s- to have done each day personally.But and it’s hard.It’s all hard.It never is easy.Yeah.So.Yeah.The good things are always hard.You’re right.Hey, um, well, let’s just wrap this up.Um, uh, a- and maybe a little pre, uh, commercial.Um, the You Dad daily calendar is now available.It’s on our website.Oh.You can get yours for your husband, um, or for all the other guys, brother-in-laws in your life.Um, it’s a, an incredible tool.A page-a-day calendar with everything dad.It’s got funny stuff.It’s got thought-provoking stuff.It’s got quotes.It’s got all kinds of stuff.It’s got trivia.It’s just a great, great thing.And if, you know, uh, we have other things.Yeah, if you’ve never taken advantage of our Christmas board game, To Bethlehem, um, it is a great Christmas game.I’ve already, I saw several come in just today- Yepum, that people have ordered them.Um, so get your To Bethlehem game, or check out our, uh, Christmas, uh, read-alouds, uh, The Cr- Family Man’s Christmas Treasury.We even have some cool new hats for your husband, um, in those kinda fall colors.Um, so, uh, super fun.Lots of stuff.Lots of products to encourage you, to encourage your family.And whatever we do, we do, we really, really, really, and the reason for this podcast is to make sure you’re smiling.Awesome.Thanks, everyone, for joining us.Again, you can pick up any of the things Dad mentioned over at thesmilinghomeschooler.com.Click on the store.And I mean, there’s just, it’s just an inexpensive, great gift to give your husband.I mean, we have guys that have been getting these for, you know, uh, maybe some of them for 20 years.I don’t know if they have y- Long- If you have any- Yeahyeah, so- YeahI mean, I think your husband will love it, and it’s just, it’s just an easy thing to do, uh, is, you know, for sure gonna enjoy.So, um, do that- Mm-hmmthough.You don’t wanna wait till the last second ’cause shipping is not always Amazon fast, so.Um, but again, thank you to- WowTeaching Textbooks for making The Smiling Homeschooler possible.Uh, go support them.Check out a free trial at teachingtextbooks.com.And also, thank you to Samaritan Ministries and Redeem Health Share, where members are committed to honoring Christ and serving one another through healthcare needs.As Todd likes to say, we use, love, and recommend Samaritan Ministries, and you can learn more about Redeem Health Share at samaritanministries.org/familyman, or you can click the link in the show notes.Um, everyone have a great week.Thanks for joining us.We really appreciate you.If you do enjoy the show, leave us a review on whatever podcast app you listen on, and we’ll see you next week.Don’t forget to smile.